Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:02:29 +0000

=====================================
Jonathan McCloy Yesterday, 4:11 pm Hi, Firstly I would just like to get some feedback on why my offer to organise the Irish Universities Mountain Running Championships was ignored by IMRA.

I emailed IMRA several months ago with an offer to host the event in the Mournes or in the Cooley Mountains (this was several months ago, specific location not entirely important).

I emailed IMRA two weeks ago requesting feedback and have had no response.

With the scheduled event drawing nearer yet again I am compelled to ask publicaly for peoples opinions. Specifically I would ask for opinions from mountain running students as that is who this is organised for. For clarity, I am a student at Queen's University Belfast.

More recently I have considered the Saturday 27th March and a more precise location for the event and I believe that the Bearnagh course provides an adequate location where the same marshals may be used for up to four different courses all incorporating the ascent of a mountain and a mixture of terrain. Due to numbers I believe the following would be most adequate.

A Route
Start - Meelbeg - Bearnagh - Meelmore - Finish

B Route
Start - Meelbeg - Meelmore - Finish

I know there will be many arguements saying that there are not enough people to allow for two sperate races, however, we do not know until we try and maybe the advertisement of an easier section for fresher mountain runners may just entice some closet mountain running students into the hills.


Regards,

Jonathan McCloy

=====================================

Mick Hanney Yesterday, 5:59 pm I'm on the committee and winter league race director and I don't recall receiving such an email. I put a request out a few weeks back looking for race directors for the winter league races and I got volunteer requests in double quick time and one of them was tasked with the Uni race. The volunteer race director's have a track record of organising imra events. The Crone race last year was very well received. It was a good challenge. I know, cos I suffered around it. I'm confident that we'll come up with a challenging route this year for the race too, whether its Tibradden or Crone.

Thanks for your suggestion. The best way to get your foot in the door in terms of organising a race is to assist at other imra events, shadow a race director at an event and take it from there.
Colm Hill Yesterday, 6:08 pm I feel as if i have to jump in to defend McCloy here.

He's based in Belfast and runs alot of the NIMRA races. I wouldn't say its practial for him to help out in a race around Dublin.
I think that the reason for a different location would be because Queens always have to travel as do UCC and GMIT etc...

The student champs in the mournes would be a nice change. I'd say run em up Donard or the Powerscourt Ridge route but i know alot of converted road runners would strongly disagree with me :)
Gerry Brady Yesterday, 7:07 pm Jonathan

I have copied below our forum exchanges from February 2009. You have broadly raised the same issues again. Were any representations made by college mountain runners to the IUAA to take on a colleges mountain race? If you did raise it with them, what feedback did you get? As mentioned to you last February, I would love to see IUAA take it on so hopefully you have been making approaches to them.

What address did you send your recent emails to?

IMRA insurance may not cover events outside of the 26 counties.

====================

Jonathan McCloy Feb 11 2009, 1:15PM As I had suggested in the non-replied emails to IMRA (NIMRA were also CC'd), why not have two courses like any other Intervarsity Competition? Fresher Course and Open Course.

Good to see that the course has been adjusted!


gerry brady Feb 11 2009, 11:57PM Jonathan apologies for not replying to you last August 2008, I was abroad on holidays and organised the Galtees race immediately I got back.

Your proposal was to host the race in the Mournes. I think the best future for this race is for the Irish universities to integrate it into their athletics programme as an IUAA race rather than for IMRA or NIMRA to organise it (my personal opinion). On numbers in 2008, there were 22 college runners last year and two mens and two womens teams so numbers would need to increase to have two races.


Jonathan McCloy Feb 16 2009, 6:37PM I have made it plain as day that I would be keen to make it UIAA or at least in the CUSAI calender, though never fear, Ultimate Frisbee and its many variations are!

You never know untill you try! I'm trying to get people to head down to the climbing intervarsities this weekend, main problem is that alot of our guys are like 'aw sure I'm not gonna win anyway', but when I explain the Fresher class, they are coming!

=====================================

Stuart Scott Yesterday, 10:52 pm Could NIMRA host the event instead? That would solve any potential insurance issues. If inexperience is a problem, I'm sure there are plenty of senior people both sides of the border willing to oversee the race organisation.

I still don't see what IUAA has to do with it. Do they have any input into the Regional and National Champs, European Champs Trial etc.?

It's probably too late to change now the date and location has been set. Instead, can we use this time to agree where to hold it next year so this doesn't arise again? By all accounts, last year's route was very well received (http://imra.ie/forum/topic/id/1480/) but it'd be nice to see the event based outside Dublin some year.

=====================================

Jonathan McCloy Today, 11:25 am Before the bumpf, Thanks for the feedback guys, it's what I expected and so replies are below.


In the meantime I think it would be a good idea for students to let us know whether they would prefer a race in the Mournes or in Dublin.



Mick,

You would be right, I did not email you. I initially emailed Gerry as the previous organiser and more recently I have been including both an extra IMRA committee member and a NIMRA member to help ensure that it was responded. Sadly this year it was only responded by NIMRA who said that it was a good idea. Before christmas I emailed the president of IMRA for feedback and recieved none.

Regards IMRA race organisation, I would not get these requests as I am from the north and a member of NIMRA.

Regards track record, purely for race organisation I have organised a race on Slieve Gallion for 7 years, one of which included the British and Irish Junior Mountain Running Championships. Further to this I have extensive experience organising outdoor activities as President of both the Queen's University of Belfast Mountaineering Club and Orienteering club. I have been involved in the organisation of two Irish University Championships as part of which we held two day events and organised nights out (these tend to attract more students!).

I hope that addresses your concerns.



Colm,

Cheers.



Gerry,

You seem to be fixed on making this race IUAA's baby. Although Desireable, this is not neccesary for it to become a race organised by students. However I do happen to be in touch with QUB Athletics and their senior members who are involved in IUAA and their feedback was that it was not going to happen.

As I had suggested before, as CUSAI are in fact the governing body for student sport, we should get the race recognised by them. If there was ever an International Student Mountain Running Championship race, the team would be selected by them, not IUAA.

Regards insurance, this race would of course be held under a permit from NIMRA, hence it is insured and only requires a £1 surcharge instead of IMRA membership, which again is more student friendly. IMRA are in fact running the Slieve Donard race as part of the All-Ireland Championship this year, which will no doubt be under a NIMRA permit.



Stuart,

Insurance should be covered above, as should be experience. And IUAA are like IOSA in their role (only more active!).

Regards changing date, I think if a decision is made by the end of the month it is adequate. I am yet to recieve any notification through the University of this race occurring, that is, neither of Orienteering or Mountaineering clubs have been informed and I would doubt any of the rest either. Which means at best I would be able to provide two months notice to University runners, currently more than what has been provided.

This is my final year in University, so my offer my not be extended next year as I do not know where I will be, but hopefully, like any other Intervarsity, some-one usually offers to host the next years event at this years.



Hope that addresses most concerns, if there are any more feel free to ask.

=====================================

Dermot Murphy Today, 12:41 pm Jonathon, as IMRA president, I did not receive any correspondence from you before christmas. Or would you have sent it before November?
I am sorry your enquiry was not responded to.

=====================================

Jonathan McCloy Today, 1:34 pm Dermot,

If it was a computer error then you cannot be blamed and apologies. I have the email in my sent box, here is a copy;

Irish Univerisites Mountain Running Championships
Jonathan McCloy
Sent: 22 December 2009 16:40
To: dermot.murphy@imra.ie

Mr Murphy,

I am writing to enquire why I have not received any feedback from IMRA regarding my offer to host this years Irish Universities Mountain Running Championships. I gave more than adequate notice of my offer and now I see that a date has been set in the 2010 IMRA calendar.

I would appreciate feedback as soon as possible. I will be contacting CUSAI in the near future to enquire about making this a recognised event.


Regards,

Jonathan McCloy=====================================
Jonathan McCloy Yesterday, 4:11 pm Hi, Firstly I would just like to get some feedback on why my offer to organise the Irish Universities Mountain Running Championships was ignored by IMRA.

I emailed IMRA several months ago with an offer to host the event in the Mournes or in the Cooley Mountains (this was several months ago, specific location not entirely important).

I emailed IMRA two weeks ago requesting feedback and have had no response.

With the scheduled event drawing nearer yet again I am compelled to ask publicaly for peoples opinions. Specifically I would ask for opinions from mountain running students as that is who this is organised for. For clarity, I am a student at Queen's University Belfast.

More recently I have considered the Saturday 27th March and a more precise location for the event and I believe that the Bearnagh course provides an adequate location where the same marshals may be used for up to four different courses all incorporating the ascent of a mountain and a mixture of terrain. Due to numbers I believe the following would be most adequate.

A Route
Start - Meelbeg - Bearnagh - Meelmore - Finish

B Route
Start - Meelbeg - Meelmore - Finish

I know there will be many arguements saying that there are not enough people to allow for two sperate races, however, we do not know until we try and maybe the advertisement of an easier section for fresher mountain runners may just entice some closet mountain running students into the hills.


Regards,

Jonathan McCloy

=====================================

Mick Hanney Yesterday, 5:59 pm I'm on the committee and winter league race director and I don't recall receiving such an email. I put a request out a few weeks back looking for race directors for the winter league races and I got volunteer requests in double quick time and one of them was tasked with the Uni race. The volunteer race director's have a track record of organising imra events. The Crone race last year was very well received. It was a good challenge. I know, cos I suffered around it. I'm confident that we'll come up with a challenging route this year for the race too, whether its Tibradden or Crone.

Thanks for your suggestion. The best way to get your foot in the door in terms of organising a race is to assist at other imra events, shadow a race director at an event and take it from there.
Colm Hill Yesterday, 6:08 pm I feel as if i have to jump in to defend McCloy here.

He's based in Belfast and runs alot of the NIMRA races. I wouldn't say its practial for him to help out in a race around Dublin.
I think that the reason for a different location would be because Queens always have to travel as do UCC and GMIT etc...

The student champs in the mournes would be a nice change. I'd say run em up Donard or the Powerscourt Ridge route but i know alot of converted road runners would strongly disagree with me :)
Gerry Brady Yesterday, 7:07 pm Jonathan

I have copied below our forum exchanges from February 2009. You have broadly raised the same issues again. Were any representations made by college mountain runners to the IUAA to take on a colleges mountain race? If you did raise it with them, what feedback did you get? As mentioned to you last February, I would love to see IUAA take it on so hopefully you have been making approaches to them.

What address did you send your recent emails to?

IMRA insurance may not cover events outside of the 26 counties.

====================

Jonathan McCloy Feb 11 2009, 1:15PM As I had suggested in the non-replied emails to IMRA (NIMRA were also CC'd), why not have two courses like any other Intervarsity Competition? Fresher Course and Open Course.

Good to see that the course has been adjusted!


gerry brady Feb 11 2009, 11:57PM Jonathan apologies for not replying to you last August 2008, I was abroad on holidays and organised the Galtees race immediately I got back.

Your proposal was to host the race in the Mournes. I think the best future for this race is for the Irish universities to integrate it into their athletics programme as an IUAA race rather than for IMRA or NIMRA to organise it (my personal opinion). On numbers in 2008, there were 22 college runners last year and two mens and two womens teams so numbers would need to increase to have two races.


Jonathan McCloy Feb 16 2009, 6:37PM I have made it plain as day that I would be keen to make it UIAA or at least in the CUSAI calender, though never fear, Ultimate Frisbee and its many variations are!

You never know untill you try! I'm trying to get people to head down to the climbing intervarsities this weekend, main problem is that alot of our guys are like 'aw sure I'm not gonna win anyway', but when I explain the Fresher class, they are coming!

=====================================

Stuart Scott Yesterday, 10:52 pm Could NIMRA host the event instead? That would solve any potential insurance issues. If inexperience is a problem, I'm sure there are plenty of senior people both sides of the border willing to oversee the race organisation.

I still don't see what IUAA has to do with it. Do they have any input into the Regional and National Champs, European Champs Trial etc.?

It's probably too late to change now the date and location has been set. Instead, can we use this time to agree where to hold it next year so this doesn't arise again? By all accounts, last year's route was very well received (http://imra.ie/forum/topic/id/1480/) but it'd be nice to see the event based outside Dublin some year.

=====================================

Jonathan McCloy Today, 11:25 am Before the bumpf, Thanks for the feedback guys, it's what I expected and so replies are below.


In the meantime I think it would be a good idea for students to let us know whether they would prefer a race in the Mournes or in Dublin.



Mick,

You would be right, I did not email you. I initially emailed Gerry as the previous organiser and more recently I have been including both an extra IMRA committee member and a NIMRA member to help ensure that it was responded. Sadly this year it was only responded by NIMRA who said that it was a good idea. Before christmas I emailed the president of IMRA for feedback and recieved none.

Regards IMRA race organisation, I would not get these requests as I am from the north and a member of NIMRA.

Regards track record, purely for race organisation I have organised a race on Slieve Gallion for 7 years, one of which included the British and Irish Junior Mountain Running Championships. Further to this I have extensive experience organising outdoor activities as President of both the Queen's University of Belfast Mountaineering Club and Orienteering club. I have been involved in the organisation of two Irish University Championships as part of which we held two day events and organised nights out (these tend to attract more students!).

I hope that addresses your concerns.



Colm,

Cheers.



Gerry,

You seem to be fixed on making this race IUAA's baby. Although Desireable, this is not neccesary for it to become a race organised by students. However I do happen to be in touch with QUB Athletics and their senior members who are involved in IUAA and their feedback was that it was not going to happen.

As I had suggested before, as CUSAI are in fact the governing body for student sport, we should get the race recognised by them. If there was ever an International Student Mountain Running Championship race, the team would be selected by them, not IUAA.

Regards insurance, this race would of course be held under a permit from NIMRA, hence it is insured and only requires a £1 surcharge instead of IMRA membership, which again is more student friendly. IMRA are in fact running the Slieve Donard race as part of the All-Ireland Championship this year, which will no doubt be under a NIMRA permit.



Stuart,

Insurance should be covered above, as should be experience. And IUAA are like IOSA in their role (only more active!).

Regards changing date, I think if a decision is made by the end of the month it is adequate. I am yet to recieve any notification through the University of this race occurring, that is, neither of Orienteering or Mountaineering clubs have been informed and I would doubt any of the rest either. Which means at best I would be able to provide two months notice to University runners, currently more than what has been provided.

This is my final year in University, so my offer my not be extended next year as I do not know where I will be, but hopefully, like any other Intervarsity, some-one usually offers to host the next years event at this years.



Hope that addresses most concerns, if there are any more feel free to ask.

=====================================

Dermot Murphy Today, 12:41 pm Jonathon, as IMRA president, I did not receive any correspondence from you before christmas. Or would you have sent it before November?
I am sorry your enquiry was not responded to.

=====================================

Jonathan McCloy Today, 1:34 pm Dermot,

If it was a computer error then you cannot be blamed and apologies. I have the email in my sent box, here is a copy;

Irish Univerisites Mountain Running Championships
Jonathan McCloy
Sent: 22 December 2009 16:40
To: dermot.murphy@imra.ie

Mr Murphy,

I am writing to enquire why I have not received any feedback from IMRA regarding my offer to host this years Irish Universities Mountain Running Championships. I gave more than adequate notice of my offer and now I see that a date has been set in the 2010 IMRA calendar.

I would appreciate feedback as soon as possible. I will be contacting CUSAI in the near future to enquire about making this a recognised event.


Regards,

Jonathan McCloy